Immigration and Biblical Hospitality

We lay out a clear, biblical way to talk with kids about immigration, holding justice and compassion together without slogans. We model practical steps for calm conversations, dignifying language, and local hospitality that reflects the heart of Jesus.

• framing a biblical worldview for complex headlines
• Romans 13 and respect for government and law
• Leviticus 19 and the call to hospitality and dignity
• avoiding proof-texting and social media rants
• defining terms kids actually hear at school
• separating people from policies
• teaching the both-and: laws matter and people matter
• practical questions to guide calm talks at home
• language choices that honor image-bearers
• practicing local hospitality through church and community
• consuming news with an open Bible and prayer
• steady, compassionate leadership for our kids

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Send any questions you want answered to podcast@waynechristian.org

This podcast is presented by Wayne Christian School- A Christ-centered community school whose mission is to assist parents and churches in the education of their children from a biblical worldview to impact their world for Christ. You can learn more at waynechristian.org

Transcript

Framing The Moment And Mission

Nate 0:01

Every headline feels louder right now. Deportations, border security, asylum, temporary protections being ended. Families are talking about it at the dinner table, whether they mean to or not. And our kids are listening.

Luis 0:14

The question is not, will they form an opinion? Because they will. The question is, will they form it inside God's story or inside cable news?

Nate 0:23

Today we want to help you disciple your kids through this moment with biblical clarity and Christian courage.

Luis 0:30

And with a steady heart because fear is a terrible teacher.

Why This Matters For Families Now

Nate 0:42

Welcome to Equipped for Impact, the podcast designed to assist Christian parents, leaders, and educators to raise up the next generation to stand firm in their faith and influence the world for Christ. We're your hosts. I'm Nate and I'm Lewis. And we're glad you are here with us today. Today's episode, as you heard in that opening, is Biblical Hospitality in an age of immigration debate. And quick framing before we start going any further into this, right? Um, this is not a policy episode uh where we want to tell you who to vote for or which bill to support or anything like that. That's not what we're coming from. Yeah, that's right.

Luis 1:22

We we're actually aiming for something bigger, right? This show is about a biblical worldview. And so we're aiming for a biblical worldview that can handle complex issues without losing conviction or compassion.

Nate 1:35

Yeah. So so Lewis, you know, what are you seeing right now that really makes this episode so urgent? Wow.

Luis 1:42

Well, if you turn on the news, right, it's it's all over the news right now. Uh you see the headlines, they're constant, whether you're talking about the situation in Minneapolis with the fraud and daycare, whether it's the situation was it was it Minnesota?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yep. Yep.

Luis 2:02

And where the ICE agent um was in a situation where an individual was run over. Um and you're hearing all about major enforcement operations and deportation focused news and even so we've got a lot of listeners in Charlotte.

Nate 2:20

And like Charlotte was one of the Charlotte, North Carolina. That was one of the cities that had one of those uh are they calling them surges of of enforcement and you know arrests and all of that. So Charlotte, like y'all are our listeners out there, shout out to y'all in Charlotte, but that was like local news for them. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Luis 2:37

And you know, the different policy changes uh changes that are affecting specific immigrant groups, right? And then number two is parents are asking, what do I tell my kids? Because because our kids are picking up language like illegal, deport, border, refugee, and and they're attaching emotions to it.

Nate 2:58

Yeah, and and sadly, with many news things, right? Emotions come first and then the facts end up following. And it's really hard to do that, especially when you see sad situations. I mean, no matter which side you're on, like these are people, um, some have lost their lives, um, and and that is an emotional thing. Um, and so we s we struggle because you hear that and you've got those emotions. Um and we wanna we wanna look at this from a biblical worldview.

Beyond Partisanship To Biblical Worldview

Luis 3:25

Yeah, and that's why we have to lead with a biblical framework, right? The easy thing is the emotional reaction, and that's what we all lean to, but this is really about how do we lead with a biblical framework.

Nate 3:37

Yeah. And so really when you you do this, there's kind of um a tension um that that biblically we see. When you look in the Bible and you you uh listening to this may have heard verses from uh either Romans 13 or maybe Leviticus 19, even if they're not cited with chapter and verse, you've you've probably heard some of these things and they seem like maybe a contradiction, but but they're not. It's a it's a tension there. So, you know, what do you think, Lewis, as you think about kind of the biblical truths in these two passages and the tension that's there?

Luis 4:10

Yeah, I think something important for us to understand as as Christians, and Nate, I I know you're a Christian. I'm a Christian, and I and I'm assuming that a large portion of our audience is probably Christian or familiar with Christian thought, right? And so the the one thing I want you to understand today that I think is important is that a Christian can believe in strong borders and we can believe in the rule of law and also be serious about compassion and hospitality.

Nate 4:39

Yeah, it and it sounds obvious, right? It sounds obvious that you can do both, you know, believe in the laws and you know the importance of them while also caring for people and individuals. Um but online especially, uh it feels like you have to pick a side. You have to pick a team. And you've got two sides, especially in social media, because of the way algorithms run these platforms is it's like you know, you are polarized to one side or the other, and if you know you're not for us, you're against us, and you're on the other team. And so it's a it's a struggle for for believers in you know the 21st century. Yeah, and that's the trap that we fall into, right?

Luis 5:17

Because you're either team A, right, team red, or you're either team B, team blue, and you have to fall somewhere on those teams because if you're not for us, you have to be against us, right? But but scripture does not let us flatten the issue into one verse and and one slogan.

Nate 5:36

Yeah, yeah. That's something that actually the Colson Center, which we've mentioned the Colson Center a lot on this podcast. Um do you still listen to their breakpoint podcasting this?

Luis 5:44

I do some, yeah. I actually read more of their stuff now, just just because it it like they send me their newsletter, and so a lot of what I get is is more of what what I'm reading. But I I still I still have it on my podcast list. Yeah. But I listen to another podcast called Equip for Impact that it takes up a lot of my time now.

Scripture Sound Bites Versus Whole Counsel

Nate 6:01

It does. It assists uh parents and leaders to educate the next disciple. Oh my goodness, I don't even know you've an intro. You gotta get it. It's because I'm out of order and I can do it at the beginning, not in the middle. Okay, scratch all of that. Anyway, we were talking about the Colson Center. Um The Colson Center, uh, in in their breakpoint podcast and their stuff, the Colson Center for a Biblical Worldview, they've really been hammering this whole idea that we need to stop using Bible verses as sound bites to baptize political instincts. That's really good stuff. Yeah, it's just like let me slap this Bible verse on here and say, see, the Bible says and it supports the position that I'm taking. Yeah. Um and the problem is life is more nuanced than that. And scripture is a whole lot more nuanced than just one Bible verse ripped out of context. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Do you follow me on social media?

Luis 6:49

You're not on social media. I'm sorry. Um occasionally I will post something on social media um if like if I like if I'm feeling something or wrestling with something. But I actually posted something the other day on on Facebook, and this is this is uh what it said. It's uh I'm pretty sure nobody in Facebook history has ever said, wow, that rant really changed my political, theological, or worldview convictions. And that means that maybe not every thought we have needs a public release date, right? So and so sometimes we should think before we post, right? And and because scripture speaks to all life, right? But but it does not submit to our side. And and if we're not careful, like we're gonna take Bible verses, we're gonna take the Bible and be like, see, it supports what I'm saying. Right. Uh but the truth is that the Bible judges every side, every issue.

Romans 13: Government, Order, And Law

Nate 7:46

Yep. Yep. So so let's kind of look at these because of the two passages we mentioned Romans 13, Leviticus 19. Let's start with Romans 13. So, you know, when we're talking about our kids, we want to disciple our kids biblically, especially as they're thinking through and hearing about this issue of the immigration debate and hospitality and all of that. Like, what do we want a middle schooler to understand when it comes to this idea of Romans 13?

Luis 8:12

I think a simple thought, right, is that government is real and and the law matters, right? Yep. God uses government to restrain evil and to promote order. And that means that laws matter. That means that sovereign borders matter, right? That means that enforcement is not at uh automatically immoral, right? Like if a government is enforcing its laws, if a government is enforcing its borders, then that's not necessarily immoral.

Leviticus 19: Dignity And Hospitality

Nate 8:40

Right, right. And and government, that's the thing, is that we think of government as a human institution, which in some respects it is, right? But you go all the way back to Genesis and God instituted human government, right? It's one of the institutions he created um f for our good, right? It was ness necessary because of our sin and our sin natures. And and so he instituted this. And we fast forward to the future when Jesus comes back, he's gonna set up a kingdom, you know, he will be the king on the throne, and then our government will be perfect at that point, right? But the government, like, it's good, right? It's the thing that that God created, and so Christians, you know, shouldn't mock law and order as if it's unspiritual or unnecessary. God put it there.

Luis 9:27

Yeah. There was a a group of evangelicals uh all across the spectrum, maybe some that are um similar to us in our convictions, maybe some that may be to the left or to the right to kind of use those terms, um, but but but generally a a conservative evangelical body. They put together a report called the the one part of the body. And that report states that government is a gift from God and respect for law is an important Christian principle, but it also insists that enforcement should balance justice and compassion.

Nate 10:04

And that I like how they put it there because it's not justice versus compassion or justice or compassion, right? It's both, right? You've got justice and compassion. And so in Romans 13, where it talks about submitting to those human authorities, that's the justice side of it. Um but then we've got this Leviticus 19, okay, and and it talks about you you might hear these words that we never use in normal conversation of the the sojourner. Um so so walk us through how does that kind of add the second dimension to this whole debate.

Luis 10:38

Yeah, and so the conversation there really is is about God's people. In in this instance, it's the nation of Israel, right? God's people, we must not dehumanize outsider. And so the problem is not the sojourner, right? It's not a problem to solve, but it's a person to love. And biblically, right, hospitality is is not just about entertaining friends, it's about making space for people who cannot repay you.

Nate 11:08

Yeah, and I think that's the part that our kids really need to hear, right? Is um, you know, we're not categorizing people into, you know, it's an us versus them or they are different. Like we look at that and emphasize our differences. Yeah. Um if we look at it, I think the heart of Leviticus 19 is emphasizing the the the sameness, right? We're all made in the image of God. We're all sinners who need the gospel. We all at some point in our lives need someone to to love and care for and help us, yeah, no matter what um geographic place we happen to be in. And I think that's that's an important part for our kids to understand as we're talking through this issue. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Luis 11:50

And one of the things if if you're listening to this and and you are a theologian, you might be thinking, well, Nathan Lewis, you know that Leviticus 19 has to do with the nation of Israel. And so and so why are you bringing this into this discussion, right? Um and and and we understand that, right? We understand that God's word.

Nate 12:06

A few verses later in Leviticus 19, it talks about not wearing a garment, like a piece of clothing that's made of two different types of cloth. Yep. So my like cotton poly blend shirt right now is unkosher. So like we we get that it's not like absolute mandates for the church age today.

Holding Justice And Compassion Together

Luis 12:22

Trevor Burrus, Jr. But there are principles and disciplines that we can pull from there, right? God's word is eternal, God's word is consistent. And and it's teaching dignity first, right? We as believers, it it teaches dignity first when it comes to the sojourner.

Nate 12:38

Yeah, yeah. And so LifeWay actually has some research on um evangelicals and immigration, and it actually shows this tension is not like rare. Like it nine out of ten, that's ninety percent of evangelicals, said immigration reform should both respect the rule of law and respect the God-given dignity of every person, and protect immediate family unity, right? We're not ripping families apart, and guarantee secure borders. Like that is a multifaceted um, you know, uh position to take. And and that you feel the tensions of of you know having to protect the borders and and respect the rule of law, but also recognize dignity and families and family units and all of that stuff. So it's not just a, hey, let me land on this one side. It's a it's a tension on all sides.

Luis 13:32

Yeah, and and that's huge, right? Because what that's telling us as as parents, as Christians, is is we are not crazy for refusing extremes. Like, like it's okay to deal with that tension, and it's okay to to believe and respect the rule of law, but also understand that God calls us to respect the God-given dignity of every person.

Nate 13:54

Yeah, yeah. And so this is where things get real. Um, like what does it look like for the body of Christ to kind of walk through this as the church universal, Lewis?

Luis 14:08

And it's interesting. So going back to the one part of the body report, right? It found that among immigrants that are at risk of deportation, a lot of them are actually Christian. The vast majority of them are Christians. And so it estimates that roughly one in twelve Christians in the United States are either personally vulnerable to deportation or that they live with a family member who is. And so this isn't an issue that's just out there. I mean, we're talking about the body of Christ. Like we're talking about people who are here, maybe their status is not what it needs to be, but who also claim the name of Jesus.

Nate 14:49

Yeah. Yeah. Which claiming Christianity doesn't make you, you know, exempt from a following rule of law. Like that's that's that tension we're talking about. And so you can't just, you know, claim amnesty because you're a believer, right? But at the same time, we're not talking about, you know, other people. We're talking about many of them, brothers and sisters in Christ. Um so we've got to we've got to think through that of, you know, it changes how we talk um about these individuals, these people, um, especially recognizing that, you know, that it may be a brother or sister in Christ. And if they're not, you know, then they need the gospel. Yeah. You know, so that's it's important. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Parenting Moves: Ask, Define, Disciple

Luis 15:32

And it doesn't mean that we're softening our convictions, right? It doesn't mean that we're saying, no, this, you know, this makes it okay, this makes it right. But it just shows that there is a deeper seriousness that we have to understand. Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.

Nate 15:46

So so let's get real practical, okay, for uh the parent listening to this who, you know, their kid comes in and says, you know, I I heard about you know deportations or uh maybe a classmate, um, somebody in the school has some type of court date set up, maybe along these sides. Or it could be as simple as my friends were talking about it at the lunch table because you know they're on social media and they know it too. Like, how can a parent respond to their children when they're thinking through an issue like this?

Luis 16:15

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. And I think that's that's that's a great conversation. And I I can actually speak to it from experience. Nate, I don't know if you knew this or not, but I'm actually Mexican.

Nate 16:23

I I I did in fact know that. Like I've I've picked up on that in a few of our conversations. Okay, okay.

Luis 16:29

So so now that you know that, right? The first move.

Nate 16:32

This is where we need that sarcasm button again. Like we are missing that button.

Luis 16:36

So so the first move to to understand is to ask what they heard and and ask what they feel, right? So so when your child comes home and they're talking about this, say, what did you hear? Where did you hear it? How did it make you feel? Because kids are gonna often repeat the loudest line, not necessarily the truest one. Oof.

Nate 16:58

Yeah. And that is that is so true. Because it's just, you know, whatever's the loudest or repeated most often um is gonna be what they remember and they pick up, you know. So who knows? Um, but what if they say something, you know, heated or uh maybe even contentious?

Luis 17:14

Yeah. The automatic response to the parent is to pounce, right? Like, like, nope, let me, like, let me, especially if if if they're saying something that you disagree with, right? Because maybe you have a deeply held conviction and then they're coming home and tell and now it's different from what you believe. And so the easy answer is is to to pounce and shut it down. But here's what I would recommend, right? Get curious, ask questions. Asking questions. Try to understand. Because they may just be repeating the loudest thing they heard. It doesn't necessarily reflect what they believe or even maybe what's true.

Words Matter: Labels, Slang, And Respect

Nate 17:48

And I don't know if you know this, but middle schoolers don't always think before they speak. Um I don't know if is that news to you? That's wow, like mine blown. There we go. Mine has blown button again. Okay, so so that's the first thing. You know, ask questions, get curious, all of that. Like just kind of gather information to see what it is you're actually dealing with. Um before we move on, I think we kind of need to define some of these terms. And maybe this is even good for you to walk through with your children. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, okay, let's define some of these terms. What do we actually mean? So, what are some of the important words to define in this kind of debate here?

Luis 18:28

Yeah. And so the second move, right, really is just defining these terms. So when so when they talk about immigrants, right, what does that mean? Well, define that for them. They may not know, they may just know the word, right? Um and tell them it's someone who moves to live in another country.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yep.

Luis 18:44

Um, another word that they might hear is refugee or asylum seeker. In fact, that's been in the news a lot lately because of some of the things that are happening in other parts of the country, right? And so when when they're talking about these things, define what it is, right? It's someone that's fleeing danger or persecution who's asking for protection from another group or country. Yep. And then a word that gets used a lot uh is illegal or undocumented, right? And so that's that's someone who is present without lawful status. And and then I might say something like this, right? These labels describe legal situations, but they never erase a person's value.

Teaching The Both-And To Kids

Nate 19:27

Yep, yep. And I think it's important here to also talk about there are which we've had episodes on slang, right? There are a whole list of slang terms to refer to, you know, immigrants to our country. And um, you know, and and if you're listening to this from another country, you probably have your own slang terms for immigrants into your country, right? Um and so encourage your your children not to use those because when we're talking about how these are labels that describe legal situations and they don't erase someone's value, like slang terms like that tend to um do that. Like their their intention is to, you know, see them as, you know, not people and erase that value kind of in the conversation. So encourage your children, if you hear some of those terms, to just stop using those and and use a better term to say what you're trying to say.

Luis 20:24

Yeah. Like one thing that I experienced growing up is is people would use the term Mexican to to describe me, like almost like in a derogatory way, like you're you're Mexican. And I'm I'm like, okay, like okay. And sometimes people do that today, right? Like kids refer to to groups as as as Mexicans and you know or they use Mexican to refer to any type of Hispanic person.

Nate 20:51

Which I worked at Chick fil A and uh we had several um really sweet, nice Hispanic ladies that would work in our store. Yeah. Um but they were from like I think it was three different countries. I remember no one they were not Mexican. None of them actually were Mexican. It was like El Salvador and maybe Belize and then something else. I can't remember. It was a long time ago.

Luis 21:09

But they were like yes you don't want to use so they were Hispanic, they were Latinas Latinas Yeah those terms. But they were not Mexican and even those terms are wonky like like I've had to like look them up because they're not interchangeable. Like you can be Hispanic and not Latin or you can be Latin and not Hispanic and you can also be both like I'd I'd have to remember like the whole thing of how that works out. Yep.

Nate 21:34

It's it's helpful because especially if you're talking to someone just to kind of you're honoring their dignity. Yeah. And so allowing our children to understand this that important distinction. Like let's honor who who God created them to be you know in in their ethnicity.

Luis 21:50

And that's a a good segue into the third move right we want to teach them the both and as a Christian conviction.

Nate 21:58

Yeah. Yeah. So so tell me like how would you um explain this maybe in a short sentence to to your to your children.

Luis 22:05

Aaron Ross Powell I think what I would just say is as Christians, as believers, we care about laws and we care about people.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Right?

Luis 22:13

Yeah. Yeah. We can want a secure border and also want to treat immigrants with dignity and compassion.

Practical Love At School And Church

Nate 22:19

Yeah and so there you've got both Romans 13 and Leviticus 19 just kind of in one one little phrase. It's the and is the important word there. And so then we kind of can bring this back to see what faithfulness looks like, you know, for for your child in you know their their next day, their week ahead, you know and and they kind of need handles to kind of think through this. It's hard for them to just be like send them out, hey go, you know, be kind to people. Yeah which is good but what what what would be some things that you know maybe questions you could ask your kids to help them think through what it actually looks like in their own lives this week.

Luis 22:59

You know just just start with with what's happening in their daily lives, right? Like what what would love look like at your school if there's a new student from another country? What would truth look like when people exaggerate or when they try to stereotype?

Nate 23:22

Yeah yeah and so that moves um to this section where they're they're not just taking a hot take to you know make a sound bite. Yeah. They're they're just trying to be obedient to what God has called us to do in loving loving others. Okay. Um so as as we kind of wind this down, um what is it that that families can do um to really like put this into action in their in their homes.

Luis 23:50

Yeah I think it it just starts with clean up your language at home right like sometimes as parents we we may not be careful with how we use slurs or jokes or or dehumanizing labels, right? And so and so make a commitment we're not gonna use any slurs. We're not gonna make any jokes we're not gonna dehumanize these people.

Nate 24:13

Mm-hmm yep that's a really good one. We we spent a lot of time there um already this episode. So I think number two would really be teaching your kids to separate you know people from from policies. Yeah. You know there you can support the strong enforcement you can support strong policies and still treat immigrants as your neighbors because they are and as brothers and sisters in Christ. Yep. You know that's an important thing. I I one really fun story I have from my time living in Europe was you know we were in Germany we took a group of German students on a mission strip to Poland which is the you know next door neighbor if you're not strong on geography to Germany. And there in Poland like you had you had Germans and you had Poles. You also had Russian Germans and you had Russian Poles. Like so that's the whole like uh you know from the Soviet era you kind of had that going on. And then you had Americans who some were missionaries to Germany, some were missionaries to Poland. And like but being together around in a in a like around a campfire and like hanging out singing worship songs and like switching languages because everybody had songs in their own language like that was really cool to see like the unity of the body of Christ there. And it's like here we all are with different connections across the world but our unifying thing is we're all believers, you know, children of God and we're all made in the image of Christ. And so like seeing that was really awesome and it just opens your eyes when you take it out of this this whole immigration debate like that's the foundation that holds us together.

Consume News With An Open Bible

Luis 25:46

And it's actually a great segue into something else that that you can do as a family right is practice hospitality locally.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Right.

Luis 25:52

Yep so so if your church has international students um if there is a refugee ministry or if your church has a large population of immigrants from a particular country maybe maybe you have ESL or maybe there there's just a family that's new to the country that's living near you or your church will well practice hospitality locally right move move towards them invite them to your church invite them to be a part of it. There's a friend of mine who pastors a church out in Sanford and I believe his church is made up primarily of Filipinos and he he is not Filipino or it's it's it's another it's it may not be Filipinos but it's another four national group right okay but the church is made up predominantly not nope not Mexicans but he is not Mexican or part of that group. And so there's been kind of this neat blend of people from Sanford that look more like people from eastern North Carolina and then you have this four national group and and it makes up this church.

Pray, Stay Steady, And Lead Well

Nate 26:59

So yeah that's awesome. And so I would say like our last thing that will really help us is you know as you consume news do so with your Bible open. Maybe not literally but but figuratively as you understand like there's no proof text to one specific issue. Yeah. Rarely is there a proof text right and so you need to keep your heart anchored in the the greater story that God is weaving of redeeming his fallen creation. You know that's one thing that we say a lot here on um on this podcast is because that's the direction we're going. Right. And so um seeing that you you see the hurt and the brokenness on the news and that should make our hearts long for the day that God will ultimately redeem and restore his fallen creation. And so consume news through that lens.

Luis 27:51

And really that that just kind of leads to to a natural result which is just pray to right right pray for leaders pray for our president pray for our elected officials pray for family school and national and all of that. Yep and then and then teach your kids to pray.

Nate 28:04

Teach your kids to pray for wisdom, for restraint and justice. Yep yep so as we close out here Lewis what what's a final you know encouragement you would give to the parent listening to this?

Luis 28:15

Let me close really with just two thoughts here, right? God is not surprised by the nations and your kids will learn how to think by watching how you talk. And so be steady be biblical be compassionate because that is what faithful Christians look like when the world around us is loud.

Closing And Listener Invitation

Nate 28:40

Yep that's that's a great uh ending there for us to just kind of as we walk through this really relevant topic uh to to keep our hearts and minds anchored in in the truth of God's word. So thank you all for listening today to Equipped for Impact. If this episode encouraged you or helped you please share it with another parent who could use this resource and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss our next episode. And until then keep leading the next generation to stand firm in their faith and influence the world for Christ